Another book that might apeall to those of you interested in playing Mercantyler/Adventurers is "The Walking Drum." The book is written by a reknowned author, Louis Lamour, better known for his westerns. The one drawback to the book is that it was to have a follow on sequal, buy Lamour died before he could write it.

_________________
Roy Denton - the title says Baron, but Queen for a year. (Cheselyne I)

"Nathamh na hoibre an t-eolas"
(Knowledge comes through practice)

For a more in-depth critique of When Christ and his Saints Slept, click here: http://www.harnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2308&highlight=

Or, if you don't fancy the in-depth version, try this: badly-researched, dry, turgid, badly-written, poorly-told and, in general, crap. Don't touch When Christ and his Saints Slept with a 10-foot pole.

Penman's Lionheart-era Queen's Man stories are much better. In this series she's not trying to dramatise history, she's 'merely' writing stories with a historical flavour; in other words, she's using her fertile imagination in a far more creative manner. And it shows - to the good.

However, she continues, even in this series, to demonstrate her ignorance of archaic English. "Certes" is early modern English - Shakespearian - for "certainly". "For certes" - "for certainly" - is not only ungrammatical, it's out of the period to boot. It's careless, slipshop god-wottery.

She can do better.

_________________
http://www.penultimateharn.com

Not enough medieval farming references in it for your tastes, Andy?

Seriously though, I'm willing to forgive some of Penman's sins since its a work of historical fiction, not an actual history text, and if I want examples of actual language from the era I'll read a primary source from the time period, not a novel. I, for one, enjoyed the book for what it was: a work of historical fiction about an era that interests me. Besides, it was superior to anything I could have written.

Interestingly enough, this post reminds me of Dongmaster's "Lost that gaming touch" post...no doubt many on this board would have spent so much time researching the book that it would never have been written

Not that there's anything wrong with that....

_________________
"Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans!...NO MORE merciful beheadings!....and CALL OFF CHRISTMAS!...."

Two books that are very well written and have some sort of Harnic flavor that I haven't seen mentioned are:

"The White Company" by Sir Author Conan Doyle

and

"The Decameron" by Giovanni Boccaccio

I can't recommend "Le Morte D'Arthur", by Sir Thomas Malory" enough. It is written by a real Knight during the early 15th century who fought in major battles, raided abbeys, was a robber baron, a highwayman, escaped from prison twice (once by fighting his way out), and other excting stuff. He compliled all the English and French tales of Arthurian legend into one book. It really helps capture the minset of midieval times and how chivalry was practiced (in my opinion).

For instance, a good and honorable knight rapes a peasant girl without much thought. The best and most honarable or chivalrous knights kill unarmed peasants off-hand. King Arthur orders the utter decimation of enemy forces that have been beaten. And other examples.

If you have never read "La Morte D'Arthur" I highly suggest you do as soon as possible.

Edit: Reading through (instead of quickly glancing) this topic I see The White Company was mentioned a bunch of times.

_________________
Nemo me impune lacessit

It is *very* important to get a good translation of this, or you'll think it's the worst book you've read (it's one of my all time-favorites, but some translations are just awful).

In English, many editions try for a pseudo-medieval feel by using "thou" and other archaic forms, where the real book had two styles--a courtly style for the framing tale, and a coarse, bawdy style for many of the stories.

For those of you looking for an English translation, I highly recommend Mark Musa and Peter Bondanella's translation...they even do a good job in bringing across the puns, which are hard to translate, much less do well.

I hope it was the translation, it bored me to tears about a quarter of the way through. At first it was interesting and engaging then it just got dull.

Any suggestions for finding a good translated copy?

_________________
Roy Denton - the title says Baron, but Queen for a year. (Cheselyne I)

"Nathamh na hoibre an t-eolas"
(Knowledge comes through practice)

Um..besides the Mark Musa translation? I've never really been satisfied with the Penguin edition, and the other copies I have are 1) out of print and 2) numbingly awful.

If you're bored with it and want some comedy, skip ahead to almost any of the 10th stories for the day...Dioneo tells some great ones as a relief to more serious themes (though day 3 story 10 is often expurgated ). I also like almost all of day 9, and any of the stories about Bruno, Buffalmacco and Calandrino (like 8,3 or 9,3).

I'm still searching for a good parallel text edition with both Italian and English (like you can find with Dante)...

The only one I've read is the Richard Aldington translation. It is unexpurgated, but I have no idea how well he translated compared to other translations. I would like to know if Musa's is worth picking up. If I liked the stories as much as I did with a bad translation, I would love to get a good one.

_________________
Nemo me impune lacessit

I was just in Elliot Bay Books looking for Viking Age Adventure books and they came up nil. Thanks Gavigan! Now I just have to find a copy. Here is a link that might help others...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/9997404483/ref=olp_tab_all/002-4465536-7388061?%5Fencoding=UTF8&condition=all

and

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/000612609X/ref=lp_g_2//002-4465536-7388061?condition=all

_________________
Semper Fidelis
EMS

So, is that what they call Röde Orm abroad? Well, I certainly can think of no better book for a good viking adventure. Very good choice - I've read it a dozen times.

_________________
"Buttkicking for goodness!"

a very classical harnic flavour fiction :
"three hearts and three lions" by Poul Anderson (low fantasy)

From the same author , "Hrolf Kraki's Saga", the epic story of a dannish prince from the high middle age.


(ps: this is my first post on this forum. I will not often post, my english is too bad to write correctly. I just want to thank all of you, for the general high quality of the debates and all the useful stuff i can find here. It's amazing. Thanks)

Oh..I don't think it is that bad. I think that as long as you have something to say...say it. We are smart enough to figure it out..even if the english is bad. Well met.

_________________
Semper Fidelis
EMS

Hey I've been trying to speak it all my life and still have problems with it. So jump right on in and contribute.

_________________
Roy Denton - the title says Baron, but Queen for a year. (Cheselyne I)

"Nathamh na hoibre an t-eolas"
(Knowledge comes through practice)

As an aside, has anyone read or had their campaigns influenced by the Malleus Maleficarum?
I smell a witch . . .

Hi All,

I just read an interesting new science fiction book called "Dies the Fire" by S.M. Stirling.

The book in not your traditional fantasy novel, but it has some great ideas for how a modern person might react if thrown into Harn (perhaps by barsai point or godstone).

The premise of the book is there is an event of unknown origin called "The Change" where Earth suffers some sort of permanent EMP event (perhaps induced by aliens, but that is only a theory).

As a result, electrical devices cease to function, gunpowder fizzles and steam can't be brought up to any sort of pressure. The result is a sudden and catastrophic reversion to medieval technology.

The story follows two main groups, a pilot and his passengers who crash and eventually form a sort of mercenary group and a witch (Wicca) who gathers a group of like minded individuals into a clan type group.

Their nemesis is a fellow known as the Protector, who is described as the kind of person who probably played a chaotic evil character in his D&D campaign!

Not all of the plot lines are resolved and there is obvious set up for a sequel. S.M. Stirling is an interesting writer, but this is not high literature.

If you are interested in a post-apocolyptic medieval environment, I recommend giving it a read.

TTYL

Kerry Mould

AKA "That rascally baron!"

_________________
Well, my days of taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle. - Mal, Firefly.

Just finished to read "Orm the red"...what a great book !!!

Thanks a lot fellow harniacs, without you I would never have known about these two books

_________________
Franceis descendent, si adubent lor cors
D'osbercs e de helmes e d'espees a or.

Indeed!!! The Osprey series is indispensible for accurate depictions of what fighting men wore and fought with.

I noticed no one mentioned "A Distant Mirror" by Barbara Tuchman, it was a terrific read.

_________________
"Pride and defiant hate, spite and harsh oblivion. Let the great jeweled knot of the Cosmos unravel in the dust."-The Pentadict of Lorgar

The Osprey books are nice, but the "Arms and Armies of ..." give detailed info on military structure and organization for these armies, as well as good particular battle info, though their illustrations are not as colorful/vibrant as Osprey's.

_________________
Hmm Gurthang. What a nice name for a sword....

Here are two more books.

Riddle-Master: The complete trilogy
by Patricia A. McKillip
ISBN: 0441005969
Format: Paperback, 578pp
Pub. Date: March 1999

A trilogy of fantasy novels that I enjoyed back in highschool many years ago. They were republished in 1999 under one cover. The story has both some low fantasy and high fantasy elements that reminds me a bit of Harn. It also deals with its own version of EarthMasters and AirMasters which might be a good source of ideas for some GMs.


The Quest for Eternity: Manners and Morals in the Age of Chivalry
by Charles T Wood
Format: Paperback, 172pp
Pub. Date: 1983

I just finished this book. I found it to be both very readable and a good overview of the cultural development of Europe from the turn of the millenium through the 14th century. A good read for GMs who want to add more social realism to their Harn campaigns.

Wow!

We agree on something; I love these books.

I have the Dark Ages, and Medieval I and II

_________________
Roy Denton - the title says Baron, but Queen for a year. (Cheselyne I)

"Nathamh na hoibre an t-eolas"
(Knowledge comes through practice)

Where can I find those books Turin? Who are the publishers? I'd love to take a look see.

Thanks

_________________
"Pride and defiant hate, spite and harsh oblivion. Let the great jeweled knot of the Cosmos unravel in the dust."-The Pentadict of Lorgar

Osprey's the name of the publisher, and they are super-cool:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/

I just picked up Italian Militiaman, Japanese Warrior Monks, and the Hussite Wars. Haven't read the Italian one yet, but the other two are great.

Two other books I'm muddling through which might make good material:
Katherine Briggs, Encyclopedia of Fairies and a translation of a chinese epic called Outlaws of the Marsh (lots of NPCs in this one...)

_________________
Oh Crap!?! I'm starting to look like my Avatar!

oh my lord....I have a what I thought was a decent collection of Man-at Arms books but I havent had the chance to buy more.

Walls of Constantinople!!!! Poitiers!!!! Ohmy!!!!

Ive already got the Norman and Italian Militiaman ones, excellent details, excellent plates!!

thanks for the link!

_________________
"Pride and defiant hate, spite and harsh oblivion. Let the great jeweled knot of the Cosmos unravel in the dust."-The Pentadict of Lorgar

I just got this book in the mail from my daughter for Christmas and I have to say its a great resource.

Seventy Great Inventions of the Ancient World

The areas covered are:

Technologies
Shelter & Subsistence
Transportation
Hunting, Warfare & Sport
Art & Science
Adorning the Person

Each area covers a number of subjects describing how it may have come into use, its development over time and how it developed in different areas.

Take Iron/Steel for example: The section covers its origin as wroght iron, how steel was developed and cast iron's development. All of which gives the reader a good idea of the process involved and its weaknesses.

Check it out, its great.

_________________
Roy Denton - the title says Baron, but Queen for a year. (Cheselyne I)

"Nathamh na hoibre an t-eolas"
(Knowledge comes through practice)

If you get the urge there is a home brew game for this that seem pretty good.
http://www.tcp-ip.or.jp/~panurge/outlaws.htm