As you may have seen HQ5 will contain (actually it is) a reprint of previously released material, but with an expansion. With so much of Hârn out of print, we may be seeing lots of reprinted articles in the near future.

What are your opinions about reprinted articles? Ok, as long as they have some new material? Just a ploy to get us to buy something we already have (maybe with some new things in them so we don't complain too much)?

Is there a better way to get things back in print, a way so that the old articles are not made obsolete? Some way where new folks and Hâraniacs with deep pockets could get a reprinted article with new art etc. and the rest of us could just get the expansions?

My initial gut reaction is to cringe at the possibility of my collection being obsolete. Does any one else share that feeling?

What is the reason that CGI has chosen to integrate expansions with OOP material, instead of publishing it separately?

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply we would see it in HQ. You already told us what to expect from HQ in regards to new stuff.

I meant to say that old stuff is in the process of coming back into print in one form or another.

So basically, what you are saying is that we will all have to buy our entire Hârn collection all over again, if we ever want to see the new material



Does it really take that much more time to get the OOP and expansion out separately then together

It is going to cause just as much if not more confusion to have 2 or more different versions of the same article Once you have that you will not be able to say "Tashal 5", for example, without specifying 1st or 2nd edition and explaining the difference ("2ed has such and such art on the 1st page").

Ugh, I really hope not



I dunno, lets see: http://www.harnforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2231



Yes there will be There will be the one here on my desk, that I have already paid $20 (or more on E-bay) for, and the one that I will have to pay another $20 to get




That doesn't make it ok. Plus most RPG companies publish &**%^%$, do you suggest CGI follow thier example SJG reprints stuff all the time without major changes (reprints), only once in a great while am I compelled to buy the same stuff over again (2nd edition). Which is why, before I found Hârn, I stopped wasting my money on all other companies. I wouldn't want to have to go back to that



Ok, fine so don't do that. Sons of Cities did a fine job. For several guildsmen add an interrior plan of thier building and the extra text. Add another map with more numbers on it to put in new NPCs and locations. etc. It is not impossible to do it, it is just a choice as to how to do things. Easier for the publisher doesn't mean better for the consumers.

Look, Patrick, I don't mean to get down on you or the work you have done at CGI. And I know there are many people out there who will just buy what ever CGI puts out "just because", or are dying to get their hands on a new version of their old articles. Plus, I want Hârn alive and in print to draw in new player as much as anyone. But HârnWrold has a big intro from Robin explaining the modularity of EH, the constancy of the 720 date, etc. etc. Something about the way CGI seems to have chosen to go about doing these 2nd edition articles gives me a bad feeling. It seems to go against the spirit of their past publishing style. This is probably nonsense, but it just seems like something WotC would pull and not our dear friends at CGI. I'm quite sure I'm over reacting, but I can't help feeling annoyed at the prospect of my limited games funding being diverted from new Hârn stuff, into old stuff with new bits added (as crunchy as those bits undoubtedly are).

I don't know CGI's views on this matter - but I will try and imagine their thinking.

New customers want to have the OOP stuff published. However, there are too few of them to make this economic. Now if we could sell to all our custmers, we could just make it pay. But are old customers already have the material and don't want to pay for it again. What we need is a compromise. We need to get the old content out, but in such a way as the old customers will rebuy it. So why would the old customers want to buy something they already have - well only to get something extra. So what extras can we add? Well new material - but not too much otherwise we don't get a good return in the investment of the back catalogue - may be 50% new. We can put it in to a new format at the same time - this will allow us to increase consistency and fix one or two of the issues in the original material. But the old customers may still not buy. Simple, bundle the expanded reprinted material with totally new stuff. The old and loyal customers will buy the lot to get the new stuff, and the sugar coating on the reprinted stuff is just about enough to sweeten the bitter pill...

Call me a cynic, but I wouldn't be suprised if the thinking didn't follow those lines.

The key thing to remember is that CGI's customer base is so small, that they can't turn a profit on a publication without having all their customers buy it.

I think if people boycotted the expanded/reprinted material, then CGI would only print new. This may be good for the old fans, but will not help the new. Without the new fans, to replace old fans who move on, CGI will have a shrinking market and won't be able to publish anything for anybody.

I'm a doom monger

Basically, what I am saying is the old customers need to buy the reprints - and subsidise the new customers - since that is the only way, IMO, the Harn product line has any long term future.

Jonathan

Not quite...

I'm seriously considering dropping out of HarnQuest because we're looking at a re-hash of old material, if what I've read is correct. I've accumulated most of the OOP stuff and don't want to keep paying for updates.

I want to see NEW material. Completely new, not re-hashed old stuff. Give me Trierzon, HM Bestiary, Hook and Lion, etc. I can't afford to keep podding out for this so-called 'new' material every few months (and isn't HQ coming out more often than it was scheduled to do so...? Not surprising if it's just updated material!).

Stick the OOP modules back on 'print to order' and get on with the new stuff!! Surely that's a better use of resources....?

Not at all It simply shows that if the method I suggest of issuing a reformatted (new art and style) version of an old article and a separate expansion article with new material were followed then most of you would be loyal (or silly ) enough collectors of Hârn to pay for old material with a prettier face, and not just the new stuff.

So what is the big deal if it is done the way I suggest? Probably only a small number of fans would buy only the expansion, a lot would buy both. Now you are risking some people not buying anything at all, because they will not pay for old stuff.

I completely agree with you However, I would suggest that you not drop out of HârnQuest just yet. Patrick, has said we will not see much more of this rehash stuff in HQ. So take advantage of CGI's money back guarantee and send HQ5 back to them the same day you get it and wait for the hopefully not rehashed HQ6

Oh, go on Patrick - post another

Good, I don't want any second editions, I want new stuff.



Bigger isn't always better. I think some of the stuff has too much detail and starts to wreak my p-Hârn. If that type of stuff is in a new article it is one thing, when it's in a new version of an old, it becomes too hard for me to swallow.

Ouch!



Selling Mail Order only is NOT the way to attract new players! New players see something on the shelves, flick through it THEN buy it! I think we've had this discussion before though....



I would say that the bulk of the people on this forum have some or all of those modules. Those people, like me, probably want new material (and yes, I have pre-orded everything on the gameplan) above all else.

Don't get me wrong, the quality of the material being produced in HarnQuest by all parties is excellent. But it's the brand-spanking new material that will ultimately be attractive to me, not the updates.

I will buy anything Harnic.... sad, but true.

That said, I agree with Patrick's analysis. While the content of the 1980s material is still good, its presentation leaves a lot to be desired. And in somecases even when it is good, it is decidely thin.

Some people seem to like thin - in which case, you don't *have* to buy the updated versions

But I will... and all the other 'collectors' like me will probably do so as well. Which is probably what Columbia Games are banking on. Not a bad move since they cater for a niche market of collector-gamers....

Regards

Jeremy

As a Harniac who was poor for almost the entire first run of the Harn Products I appreciate the chance to get the old material in re-prints. I can appreciate the frustration though of Harn'er who already own the material though. But it does sound like there is some new material to nibble on.

Also we need to face the fact we all love a "not very popular" setting and game. I mean we love it and know its great, but most of the gamming public doesn't. Were kinda like the old guy down the street who spends a ton of money importing car parts from England to keep his Austin Martin sports car running. When everyone else just drives a Ford or Honda (DnD and White Wolf)

It's annoying but true, we have to pay more for our Harn fix. The lil company that could (Columbia Games) just can't pump out the material.

One thing that I feel was a blunder, no matter what argument is made. Is not selling the Harn product via Bick and Mortar Hobby shops. That still has to be the main avenue for attracting new gammers. I can appreciate there loosing money to online retailers. But any profit has to work. I don't know what the solution is, but pulling the product from Game store shelves isn't it. There is no way that will increase the potential market of "paying Harniacs".

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Clan motto:"buaidh no bas"