I have a few questions for those who have invested more into Harn than I so far have. It is accompanied by a gripe which is likely due to my ignorance. My basic bitch is, "Why can't they take one format and go with it?"

My questions are:
(1) are only half the new titles punched for 3-ring binders (the other half being perfect bound)?
(2) are future articles going to be sold piecemeal ala HarnQuest (a good idea imho)?
(3) are Harn Classic titles really just out-of-print kingdom modules (which I thought were *all* now print on demand, none truly being oop) they have updated?
(4) do they really expect me to buy anything under these conditions?

Early in the 90s I got fed up with CGI titles being oop, so I literally trashed *all* my Harn stuff. Then I bought HM2 and started to put together a few books. Then they released HM3, which I didn't buy and which is good since they're now giving it away.

I know I sound pretty dense, and all this is explained in the newsletter they send out. However, my point is that I have held off buying anything until I can figure out if what I am buying will be hacked up and repackaged in six months. And I have wound up deleting my shopping cart probably 6 times because second thoughts nag at me. What puts me in a bad position is that I really don't think the campaign books are written well, at all; I just love the milieu, though (except for the psionics, the western half of Harn, and a few other bits I conveniently ignore ) I am asking for someone to help illuminate things for me.

Sincerely,
-z-

Zrayaan,
Have you made your grievances known to CGI? I would hope they are open to constructive feedback from the Hârinac community...since we are, after all, the ones keeping them in business.

I'll do the best I can and others will undoubtedly assist their input as well.

1. Most every thing I know of is now being published 3-hole punched.

2. HarnQuest is the way it should be IMHO, a compilation of really good fan work published by CGI in recognition of their work and to further customer interest in the game, at least that is my take. I personally wouldn't want to see a regional module done piecemeal, if one is ever done again.

3. They are the kingdom modules; however, they are being revamped with a lot of additional material and fleshed out more. Do a search on Kanday and you can find a tease of Kanday, the first one to come in the next few weeks, done by Grant.

4. What conditions?

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Roy Denton - the title says Baron, but Queen for a year. (Cheselyne I)

"Nathamh na hoibre an t-eolas"
(Knowledge comes through practice)

Having just browsed through my Harn material, all the new stuff appears to be punched for 3-ring binders. order punlications appear to be bound (ie Chybisa, Azadmere), Trobridge, Evael, HarnManor, Harn Religion, Harn Barbarians are all hole punched for a 3-ring folder



As I understood it the idea with the Harn-Classic would be available by article. I may have misunderstood but I believe the answer is yes, new items will be sold by article.



Yes, the Harn Classic items are OOP, the maps of the items are being given a major upgrade and the material reformated. I also think I read somewhere that Grant had also reformated the the old Harnlore material into the new format (worth checking this). I think they were Print on demand at one time. maybe if you specifically ask them for something you need they will help you by giving you a copy made up on demand. I believe the goal is to systematically revise the old OOP material, revising the maps tweaking the content where needed and putting into the current format. While that may not be for everyone it will be for some.




I imagine they hope you buy what you need- and that you feel you need a lot. However i think they are also aware that not everyone will require or need everything, I think that is one of the main reasons they seem to have opted for the sale by article approach.



yeah the 90's were a very lean period and a major frustration. However there is a plethora of new material in harnquest and freebies available at either lythia.com or Harnmaster.com




I think your fears about the material being hacked apart and repackaged in six months is pretty unfounded. The first Harn Classic will be Kanday, and that has not readily been available for many years, it is one of the few kingdom modules I sadly do not own. And in the twenty or so years since HM1 appeared we have really seen only two other revisions from GCI and an alternate 2nd edition HMgold. Compare that to the revisions and optional rule expansion/supplements in other games and Harn isn't really that bad. If anything I tend to think Harn has the reverse situation.

Maybe however, Grant will take the time to comment as well. I hope so, especially if I have it wrong.

I agree that CGI is open to discussion; I have often been amazed at the level of communication with this forum, as well as through email. However, I believe the block games keep CGI in business, not we few Hârniacs. It all just goes to show how much the folks at CGI love this game!

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Well-being I won and wisdom too.
I grew, and joyed in my growth:
From a word to a word I was led to a word,
From a deed to another deed.

I think all the questions have been answered correctly, but anyway:
1.
With HM2, CGI decided to publish in the loose leaf format. This has been the way of publishing ever since, which means 1996. No switching between formats every other module... Since CGI is now exclusively selling their wares via thier own website, it is, I assume, even more likely they will stick to this format as they don't have to think of shelf-appeal anymore. Not that they hinted at returning to bound books before their "declaration of independence"!
2.
They will most probably be sold as loose leaf format for a long time to come. But there might very well be high page counts. I mean, if Trierzon ever gets 500 preorders... loose leafs and big volume do not contradict eachother, just look at the 160pp HM3.
3.
All has been said on this. Expanded, re-edited, new artwork, new maps.
4.
As said, all the new material has been on loose leafs since 1996. Due to your absency you probably have a different impression of it, but it is true. The bound books still sold are the remaining copies of the old modules.
BTW, if this is a problem, you can always (as many do since ages) cut apart the books and put them in binders.

Did you really trash all your Hârn stuff? The thought alone makes my nails coil...

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Florian
A most unique Ivashu

This is a wrong impression probably caused by the fact that many HârnQuest contributors also publish or published brilliant fan material.
Fact is, the HârnQuest articles would never have seen the light of day if not for this new format.
And, definitely without wanting to take well deserved glory from the brlliant fan material in any way!, the amount of work going into the HârnQuest articles is a different cup of tea, naturally.
I also would like to add that HârnQuest is anything but piece-meal. Both the Olokand and the Golotha articles were much bigger than their predecessors that appeared in bound books.
But I guess you didn't mean it this way.

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Florian
A most unique Ivashu

No, and your explanation sounds a lot better.

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Roy Denton - the title says Baron, but Queen for a year. (Cheselyne I)

"Nathamh na hoibre an t-eolas"
(Knowledge comes through practice)

zayaan, the simplist explanation is that CGIs practices are intended to weed out the nancy-boys.

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43 sessions, 183 hours 'at the table' in a Harn containing the much-feared potâtoe!

12th Knight, 8th Constable, 2nd Baron of Harn(Forum)

Most of what has been posted has been clear and correct. Thanks to those who pay attention and pass on good, clear information - that's what makes this forum great.

There is one issue which is still muddy, and quite understandably so since CGI have yet to resolve it...
What is HarnClassic? Is the forthcoming Kanday a HarnClassic? If so, what makes HarnClassic different from HarnQuest? And what about Menekod and Dyrisa, which were to be a part of the HarnClassic?

The strategy got changed (to our benefit, thanks to competition with NRC) AFTER the HarnClassic Kanday was announced. The plan had been to reprint Kanday, Menekod, and Dyrisa as they were originally just to get them back in print. Then Tom decided it would be better to overhaul Kanday and redefine the standards for Kingdoms. The new, improved Kanday no longer fits the HarnClassic plan - thus the confusion. Here is my best explanation.

CGI can and will decide as they see fit, but the smart money is on this:

HarnClassic is old text reformatted in the new styles for readability. The content is exactly as it was originally, except maybe some typos and other errors fixed. HC has no new material - there is no need to buy it if you have the originals.*

HarnQuest is material that is either all new or is a major expansion of a previously-published article includes a lot of new material. A new HarnQuest generates lots of talk.

Every article is intended to be available online separately. If you get the HQ, then there is no need to also get the articles on the website - they are the same thing, available this way for convenience.

The HQ line is intended to be The Last Word on each site, at least until the next Ice Age. Considering the rate of publication and the need to fill in as-yet-unpublished sites, it will be a long, long time before there is a need to revisit Olokand, for example. So do not fear that the information in a HQ will become obsolete in this lifetime.

* (there's always an * with these guys) About those new maps...
It is not yet clear if the new maps will go automatically with the HarnClassics, will be available separately, or both. HQ will get all new maps.
Here is a conundrum: if the old maps are out of print and not reproduceable, then the HarnClassic article needs a map and perforce would get a new one. Does that mean you should buy HC Menekod just to get the map? No - The purpose of the HC line is to get the old stuff into print fast (relatively speaking), not to be an excuse to sell a map. Make sure they know there is a demand for the maps on their own, because even if your favorite three sites were the next in the list, it would be most of a year before you saw them.

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Heroes should be uncommon. They just happen to be the PCs.

So are you saying that HC will be the original Kanday and that there will alos be a HQ Kanday that consists of the expansion?

If that is the case, I'm going to subscribe to HQ post haste.

I am really liking Selvos, btw, and with Kerry Mould's expansions I am even more pleased

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No signature required

No, HC Kanday will come with the new stuff and the revised older material, at least that is how Grant explained it.

HQ will contain separate material as it is developed in the future, not just for Kanday, but all of Harn.

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Roy Denton - the title says Baron, but Queen for a year. (Cheselyne I)

"Nathamh na hoibre an t-eolas"
(Knowledge comes through practice)

There is no HC Kanday.
There was going to be an HC Kanday, HC Dyrisa, and HC Menekod, but the plan changed.
Now there is going to be an HC Dyrisa and Menekod (no new material), and an HQ Kanday (with new material).
HQ Kanday should be out before the end of the month.

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Heroes should be uncommon. They just happen to be the PCs.

Well, the CGI web site still says that the next Harn Classic contains, Dyrisa, Menekod and the Kingdom of Kanday. The next Harn Quest contains Minarsas, Dogs and Bears.

I must say I'm really confused by all the speculation on the forum here. If indeed Harn Classic is simply reprints of old material, I really don't want to buy what I already have. If it will have updated material I perhaps will order it, but I don't want to subscribe to Harn Classic and get a bunch of reprints.

Perhaps Grant can clarify what the prupose of each the two products is, so we can purchase things knowing what we'll be getting.

Cheers,
Brian

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Brian McNeilly
Burnaby BC Canada
bmcneilly@shaw.ca
http://members.shaw.ca/harngm/

I hope he does; he stated so on Jan 2nd that Kanday was still coming along and not more than a week ago he told me in an email that they should be ready to announce in dicey business in a couple of more weeks. So if the plan has changed now, I for one would really like to know.

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Roy Denton - the title says Baron, but Queen for a year. (Cheselyne I)

"Nathamh na hoibre an t-eolas"
(Knowledge comes through practice)

I apologize for the confusion. It arose because we did indeed change plans (for the better) after announcing Harn Classic.

The thinking was that it is crucial to have the core kingdoms back in print, Financing them was always an issue since it was assumed many would be content with their originals. Yet many others did not get a chance to obtain these modules so Harn Classic was seen as good way to get a little revenue right at publication. So far so good...

But, when I tackled Kanday I found a lot lacking. First I reorganized the meat of the module into the subinfeudation structure. Then I added illustrations of major players and quickly ran out of room. So I expanded that part into a page per keep or castle. I've also revised the history and added new maps of the historical campaigns. There's also a new political map showing all the kindgom by who holds it. A sophisticated calculation by John Sgammato led to a wonderful new page about economics showing supply and demand of many commodities by location. Kanday is also divided by Shires and Hundreds and so two pages were added showing how they break down with new stuff about the forest hundreds. Then add a few pieces about Cuisine, Music, the Ternu Heath etc and its up to 48 pages. And looking sharp! I am really close to having it done!

So the Classic version of Kanday at 16 pages is out the window.

Trial balloon: Since this is such a major overhaul, is there any objection to making it a HarnQuest release to ship soon. HQ6 with Minarsas etc would just move back to HQ7 and still come out asap.

HarnClassic subscribers are almost universally HarnQuest subscribers too so the change would be easy. Bear in mind that anyone who wants to can omit this item but you are encouraged to take a look knowing our return policy will allow you to send it back for a refund if needed.

HarnClassic would probably still remain as a concept to help expedite sites which do not need major revision.

The new standard is thick 3 hole punched paper and it will be that way indefinately. Our new system also allows us to keep everything in print at all times.

Grant Dalgliesh

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Grant Dalgliesh

Columbia Games, Inc.
http://www.columbiagames.com

Sounds very good to me.

Well now we knows. Sounds cool... Will be good to have kanday.

Rethem would be good to do next I think thats the other one I lack.

Geez, I hope I don't sound like an idiot here.

I signed on for HârnClassic back in Sept. of last year. My thinking was it would contain the essential parts of the Kanday Kingdom module with some other bits thrown in.

Now I'm really confused. I'm still signed on for HârnClassic as far as I know, and not signed up for HârnQuest. So what will I get with the former?

If it's not what I originally signed on for maybe I better change my subscription.

from what i understood,
HQ kanday will be the old Kanday expanded, reformatted as grant said. Though I can see you concern... having subscribed for both as long as it isn't repeated in each i can live with it, at least if my bank balance can.

That's fine by me. I just subscribed to HarnQuest

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No signature required

Wow.

It will be very hard for anyone to stay content with only the original version now. The supply-and-demand stuff alone make it worth having.
.

So you are saying Columbia can expect 600+ orders for Kanday?

Now if only we could muster 270 more Treirzon pre-orders we'd be happy little vegemites for sure.

To clarify, if Kanday is sent via HarnQuest it means those of you subscribed only HarnClassic (there are only 3 or 4) would not receive it. Certainly no-one will get it twice.

I toyed with dropping the classic concept altogether but have decided to keep it on for now to keep options open. It does remain to be seen which articles would come out that way. Stuff like Tesien or Ivinia may fit there but its a little hard to say until I actually tackle them.

The thinking is that if we really revise an article, we should Harnquest it but if we just reprint it with minimal edits, it goes out Harn Classic.

Grant Dalgliesh

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Grant Dalgliesh

Columbia Games, Inc.
http://www.columbiagames.com