Hello Folks,
This thread is prompted by another titled "The Missing Earl returns..."

Much of how I would have responded to that thread would have required that certain assumptions be made before I could continue. There is scant information available regarding Sedris that one has to wonder what we can infer about the "character" within the confines of Harnic history.

First, lets look at what we do have. On page Kaldor 15 of Kaldor Kingdom Module first edtion, we have the following phrase "Sedris Meleken, a man of renowned honor, is currently away from the estate in search of a murderer. He left early in 719 and his estates are competently managed by his wife Thilisa".

Ok, not an awful lot of information to work with, but lets see where this goes. If we look more closely at Kaldor Kingdom Module second edition, we're told that Sedris is the last of his line, and that upon his death, the Earldom would be held by someone not of his direct bloodline.

My question is...

Why would an Earl personally go after a murderer when he would more than likely have sent a vassal to undertake the task?

In order to answer that question, one has to ask "Who was the murder victim". I find it highly unlikely, that the Earl would pursue a murderer of a common born individual - that's what vassal knights are for. I also highly doubt that the Earl takes a personal interest in any and/or every commoner who is a vassal to himself or his own vassals as to personally persue their killers. That leads me to conclude that the Murderer's victim has to be someone of note.

Now, why did the authors of the Kaldor Kingdom Module mention that the Earl was on a quest to pursue the murderer yet not list who that person was, nor whom that person's victim was? Oversight? A desire to leave an adventure hook without detailing it too much so as to place any future GM's in a straightjacket as to how to handle it? If we can't observe something directly, what can we infer from the shadow that is cast by that which we cannot see?

First - would an Earl set off in pursuit of a killer with just himself, or would he have set off with his squire, and a few body guards? Would he have been able to leave his estate without at least telling his wife why he MUST go instead of a vassal knight? Would he have left his estates without at least informing the King (his liege) of his intent? How many day's worth of supplies would the Earl of taken (dependent upon how many people he was taking of course!). How much coinage would the Earl of taken to subsidize his hunt of the Killer? Would what he took, have been able to last at least 6 months? And if so, why did the Earl think it would take so long?!!!

Second - what kind of trail would the murderer have left for which the Earl even hoped he could track the Killer? Did he know the Killer's identity? Was he hunting an actual physical trail - which after a few day's rain, would have been wiped out? More importantly, what kind of trail would the Earl of left as he tracked his quarry? Where precisely was the Earl expected to go to but never showed up at - after leaving? In other words, if the Earl goes to place A, then from there to B, and from there to C and D, and from thence, to E - if he never arrives at E, his last known place was D. The trail/spoor gets lost between D and E, but at least we know for example, that at place D, he was there at such and such time and date. Harn's KALDOR KINGDOM MODULE does not give any such information (that I'm aware of) and it seems to be lacking altogether such that a GM has to do all the work themselves. As such, each P-HARN will be unique in this regard.

So, to that end, I propose the following thoughts, and let people run with them

1) the murder victim was not initially seen to have been a murder victim, and common knowledge being what it is - everyone believes the death to have been natural.

2) the victim has to be someone of such import to Sedris that he HAS to set off in pursuit. The murder has to be someone who can't be accused with impunity by a noble, and thus, the quarry must be noble born as well.

3) The King has to know of it or Sedris would never have been able to assauge his own sense of honor and leave his liege without his services - ie, Sedris asked for, and receive permission from the King. The other possiblity is that the KING himself sent Sedris on this mission...

The only TWO victims whom Sedris might feel a need/compulsion to chase after personally, are either:

A) The King's brother, who died in 719. If he suspected the Sir Merik's death were not natural, but had no real proof, he'd possibly undertake the task after asking permission. Otherwise, if someone perhaps witnessed the death and the King knew of it, perhaps the King directly approached Sedris to find the killer and bring the killer(s) to justice. After all? If Sir Melik had been killed, he was the number one person in the line of successsion after the King himself (remember, no heirs!). This hints at a possible conspiracy where someone is attempting to ruthlessly eliminate all contenders to the throne (including the actual wearer of the crown!).

B) The Earl's Kin. As of the Kingdom module second edition, we find that Sedris is the last of his line. Might it not be possible that in 718, he discovered evidence that his father had been murdered, and that he feels a personal need to bring such miscreant to justice?

Imagine the possibilites we have here just trying to tie in the reason for Sedris' pursuit to the events of Kaldor in TR 720. For example? Suppose the wife to Troda Dariune has taken it into her heart (much like Lady MacBeth for example) to murder the King's Brother, and then the King so that Troda Dariune can sit upon the Throne? Perhaps Sir Conwan, ever aware that if his rival to the throne were recognized as a legitimate bastard of the King, that he may not be able to assume the throne - putting years of private negoation with the Church of Larani at jeapardy so as to renounce his oath renouncing his claim to the throne? What if Cheselyne the Elder fears that her chances of seeing herself or her daughter assume the throne is non-existant unless she helps nature a little by killing the King's brother FIRST, then the King?

There are so many possible avenues as to who the real killer is in a whodunit of medieval nature, that the GM can explore both the fun of the Kaldorian succession crisis and that of "what will the player characters do when they discover that the real murderer is the person they've been upholding throughout the entire crisis"?

In all? I feel it is a shame that Sir Sedris Melekin was never fleshed out as well as he might have been. With a beauty of a wife who is faithful to him, along with a feckle kingdom where people assume that an absense of less than a year signifies that the person is dead and whose wife is fair game for courting...

Can you imagine what might happen if the Earl were to return and he discovers that his wife has been the target of many a knight's lustful advances? Why the number of duels alone might end up killing him!!!

Very nice fleshing up of the possibilities. Thanks.



Think about Odysseus when he returned to his Ithaka...

-ile

actualy I was allready thinking of Odysseus Before I got to the bottom of the page.

My thoughts "In castles of Harn , Qualdris 5 it says,
"Eight Months ago, The earl left Qualdris in pursuit of a freeman called Keldirian a local woodcutter and Iceman who accidently killed one of the earls men at arms, then fled to escape almost certain hanging. No word of the earl's success or present whereabouts has been received since his departure."

Haveing read a few posts on "The Bloody tapestry" and the "Dance at the slaugterhouse." Makes me wonder if one, the other or both have something to do with the sudden disaperance. What if the Killing wasn't an accident, and it was done to remove a spy, and the earl is not hunting Keldirian but joined him for some critial mission?

_________________
"No one is trying to kill you Yossarian!"
"Then why do they shoot at me when I'm dropping bombs on them?"

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9878

Spoilers below:
















The Earl sent a few men to talk to one of his subjects concerning item X. The subject thought he was going to be arrested for being involved in illegal activity Y, gets spooked and tries to flee.

One of the men sent to talk to the subject falls from his horse during the tussle and is killed. The subject mounts up on the horse and flees.

The other two men look to thier fallen companion and return to the Earl with the body, who then sets off in a hasty pursuit.

Roland's article is an amazing who-dun-it of the other things that happened along the way that the party will have to suvive through to un-ravel the mystery.

_________________
Smile and wave boys, smile and wave.

You can tell how dysfunctional a person is by how many bumper stickers they have

That is exactly the question everyone asks himself when reading the canon about Sedris, and the one that prompted me to write my campaign (which is my answer to that question).

The observation I made right after asking myself the above was : "Well, either he is an impulsive idiot - not a very exciting take if one wants to make an adventure out of his search - or he had a very good reason to set off after him".

I decided to go with the second option and further reflexion on the reason yielded the main themes of the campaign.

Cheers,

Roland

Nice catch regarding Castles of Harn and Earl Seldris...

As for myself? Looking at the idea that the Earl himself would set out on a personal persuit of a commoner for the death of either a Knight or Commoner (as a Man-at-arms seems capable of being either commoner or noble), it seems a bit odd that Sedris would do such a thing. I can't picture the Earl abdicating his responsibilities for anything short of something of equal value (as far as responsibilities go). I also can't believe that the Earl would go anywhere just by himself - and 8 months of absense is not going to be "cheap". Food, lodging, supplies, fodder for the horse, etc - plus a tracker to track the miscreant - are all going to require a certain amount of coin and/or preparation.

In any event, I've just had a long talk today with two of my three players, and we're going to start a new Harn Campaign come January 25th. I've got a fair amount of preparation required - photocopies to make and distribute (those wonderful memory maps from Encyclopedia Harnica) as well as some details to work out for my players based upon their starting location of Qualdris. It should prove to be interesting...

I encourage anyone interested to take a look at the article that I wrote for Thonahexus 9, which included all the canon details I could find about Sedris and his wife. There is also some of my speculation, clearly marked as such.

However, there are a few things that I want to mention.

Canon does not say that Sedris is the last of his line. It says that if he does not return, then some number (12?) generations of direct descent come to an end. All this really means is that Sedris is probably an only child, and that the Meleken family has passed its title from father to son for a very long time, without having to resort to combing the family tree for the most closely related cousin. Note that canon does give examples of such cousins in the Nubeth page of the Kaldor Kingdom module. A daughter of "a lesser branch" of Clan Meleken married the heir of Nubeth and produced children. At least, she and her children exist. Also, there is no reason to believe that this lesser branch is extinct. Finally, the phrasing "a lesser branch" implies to me that there may be other branches, probably as bailiff families to Meleken manors.

If Sedris does not return, his wife Thilisa should not inherit the Earldom of Osel. She should be able to hold it in the name of her husband, but if he is dead, then there should be a Meleken clan council called to pick a successor. Most likely, this successor would be one of those with Meleken blood.

This is one reason that I find Thilisa's story so compelling. She is bravely trying to hold things together in a place where her welcome may be wearing thin, hoping that her husband will return before she is removed.

Of course, you may run your p-Harn as you wish, but this is what I get from existing sources.

- Ed

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"Your logic is flawless. But that doesn't mean you're right." - Tedd Good

I've just completed playing a scenario revolving around exactly this conundrum. Our GM wove the story like this:

The real reason why the Earl has vanished is because of a broken heart. He loved his wife, but she secretly prefers the company of other women and could not keep up appearances (of being a loving and specifically heterosexual wife).

Another man might just have booted her out of his castle, but Sedris did not - could not - bring himself to disgrace the love of his life.

Thus his disappearance, and the cover story.

When our party (a travelling pair of Shek-Pvars from Tashal's Arcane Guild and their entourage) arrives in Qualdris we get embroiled in two plot lines.

1) Lady Thilisa has instructed her chamberlain (and secret lover) to keep an eye out for eligible men of flexible morals. In other words, somebody mad enough to accept to disguise himself as the lost Earl, returning for a quick visit, enough to explain why the Lady is with child (thus ensuring her hold on the throne, since she can then rule in the name of the Earl's rightful heir).

2) The Earl himself, now a revenant and fully-trained Naveh assassin, that just happens to travel through Qualdris. He's gone all ascetic and have renounced his old life (unable to think about Thilisa).

The short version is that we successfully manage to play the role of the returning Earl and impregnate the Lady all while befriending the real Earl as well as keeping him out of the public eye, and unawares of our other "mission".

We even manage to improve upon the cover story (which we too felt was strangely weak): instead of just leaving the county to pursue any random criminal, we plant the rumor the criminal wasn't a common murderer - instead it was a commoner who forced himself upon the chamberlain (i.e. the very same person who gave us mission 1) above). While there was a moment Lady Thilisa was prepared to throw us out for destroying her lover's reputation, we managed to convince her it was actually for the best: because noone wants to marry a rape victim, the chamberlain can remain unmarried (and thus in close proximity to her Lady). (Not saying it was a clean solution, but hey, at least it adds credibility to the disappearance story)

The Earl later on is very nearly contracted to take us out when we have a turf war against a hostile Thieves' Guild back in Tashal (another story), but we narrowly avert disaster by outbidding them to point the Naveh assassin in the other direction instead...

Let me propose another hypothesis (just for the sake of diversity). Everyone so far seems to have assumed that the murderer was important in some way, and that the earl is gone missing because of some misadventure. Now consider the following possibility. The earl is a highly honourable man. Let's say he also loves his wife. Then he discovers (a la king Arthur) that she is in love with his best friend and vassal, who also loves her. This isn't some tawdry affair, but more your classic courtly love triangle. What's an honourable earl (who finds the situation very hard to deal with) to do? Particularly if there is no (proven) actual adultery yet.

He looks for the first way out. A murder is committed, and the murderer flees. The earl sets off in pursuit, using catching the murderer as an honourable way out of an intolerable situation.

The situation now? He may have caught the murderer and found another excuse to stay way from home. "If I pprehend this murderer, I swear to undertake a pilgrimage to Tengela...) He's basically using the hunt for the murderer as an excuse to get out of an impossible domestic situation, and to deal with a lot of repressed anger at his wife (that being the perfect knight he cannot and will not express).

Cheers,
De Coucy

Thread re-direct. I'm using Roland's version of the situation, go to Iviniacon if you want to play through it.

Should Sedris return, what are his likely allies?

His wife's father Earl Caldeth is equally vague on his alliances in the Kaldor book and has no claim to the throne.

He's honorable, it seems he would more support Cowan's throne bid then Maldan's bid.

Thylissa has received great support from Sir Reumi at Nebulan Chapterhouse and the Baron of Kobing, which likely indicates he had decent relations with these men prior to chasing down the murderer. Thier support to Thylissa during his absence would only strengthen that bond.

_________________
Smile and wave boys, smile and wave.

You can tell how dysfunctional a person is by how many bumper stickers they have

On the other hand, she probably has a generous dower due from marriage negotiations. Even if she were removed she would likely have a few choice manors to her name as countess dowager. Despite her chaste behavior, she may be getting lonely and find herself motivated to put the question to rest so she can resume normal life or move on. She's not an adulteress, but it doesn't say they had a great love affair, either. An arranged marriage to suit her father's ends could merely have resulted in respect for an honorable man from a loyal woman. Indeed, his honor has left her in marital limbo for eight months.

Of course, forcing the issue and moving on as a potential succession crisis is on the horizon wouldn't do her clan any good, either. She seems dutiful and likely wants to maintain her position to secure her father's flank. But that doesn't bar personal feelings that could run counter to it - especially if her heart were to be stirred. This isn't to say she'll simply abandon her post, but properly motivated she might seek to force some sort of suitable resolution.

I've considered a Countess' Progress (with a smaller retinue of perhaps 20-25 and fewer stops) centered on her travelling to determine her husbands fate (prompted by some key hook - and perhaps even assassins targeting her!). Basically, visits to Ledyne, major events in Tashal and Caleme, and some sort of finale at Olokand. The PCs would end up proving themselves and being used as key agents as events transpire.

I think the strong hint via his letter in the Earl's Progress (not canon, I know) is an excellent supposition about his thoughts.



I tend to agree, but I think he would be ill at ease to back an "oath breaker." So, unless there wasn't anyone else with a serious claim I think he might suck it up and back a Dariune-Hosath bid or Osirin Firith.



I think a big part of this would be circumstance.

If it erupts into war and Osirin Firith marches north with his army, perhaps backed by Sir Reumi, Qualdris is right in his path.

If his father-in-law backs them and Conwan hasn't been released of his oath Sedris might well prove to be the center-man in "the army of the south."

If for any reason they can swing Troda Dariune or Hemisen Curo to their side (based on the circumstances the GM creates) they probably have a lock.

One thought is that Troda has offered a huge reward for information on the assassination attempts on Rakela Dariune. And may need to learn some things about Kyg.

If the culprit turns out to be one of the major contenders (other than Firith) it could seal the deal - indeed, what if Sedris' murdered retainer was bringing info on just that?