The deviation due to the two-body movement is on the order of an arc-minute - an accuracy that was not achieved on Terra until Tycho Brahe in the second half of the 16th Century. And Brahe's measurements were not precise enough to actually detect the motion.

Orbits tend to resonance. So perturbations in the orbits will actually tend to restore the resonance, not move the planets away. NRC made a few mistakes in his astronomy, but putting the orbits into resonance and remarking that it is so perfect that most believe the Earthmasters made it that way was not among his errors.

Bringing a conclusion to the current discussion feels somewhat like trying to bring peace to the Middle East, however someone has got to try...

At this point not only has the question about Astrology been turned into a debate about Astronomy, but the details involved have gone way beyond what anyone pre-Copernicus (or even most moderns) would know or understand. While I respect and admire the technical expertise that the posters have brought to this discussion, they assume that the knowledge in their possession is the same as the unlettered masses of Kethira have access to.

While indeed a small fraction of Arcane Lorists or members of Save K'nor may have a sizeable percentage of the information presented here, I offer for your consideration the thought that Harn represents the Medival mind which includes all the limitations (and advantages) that would imply. Miracles and magic are not only accepted, but are indeed "proven" and the scientific method still needs to be discovered. Illiteracy and superstition still rules the countryside and most people only want to know how to survive in the physical world without starving, freezing or otherwise dying in a most unpleasent manner. The modern concept of a scholar in an ivory tower in literally inconcievable to virtually the entire population of Kethira unless it is applied to the religious hierarchy. On Harn, only Melderyn has anything resembling a group of people whose primary job is thinking about subjects that do not lead to immediate survival, economic advantage, military surpremecy or man's relationship to God.

Most Astrologers have a couple of books that they may (or may not) be able to read with tables and sample charts showing how to present the information to the mark. Hmmm ... lets make that client. A select few actually know their craft well enough to deduce that there is a problem if something doesn't look right, fewer yet will have the courage to point it out. Certainly less than a dozen men on the Harnic Islands will have the skills necessary to correct any such error that their ancestors have made and they may (or may not) be either interested enough or influential enough to do so.

Thus in conclusion may I suggest that either model of Atrology could be considered correct. It is a fantasy world after all, even if it is most detailed one I've ever had the privilige to game in.

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...and I'm not dead yet...

Do not worry, there is no war here. Actually I have been testing pokep's software and trying to develop a program that can extract the star chart information he wants.

The star chart idea actually looks pretty nice. Seems like a great tool.

I have been looking for someone to test my program but since only 1 person has expressed any interest in it it is good that I picked up the project and got involved with it largely to practice OOP programing in C++.

If there are any philosophical differences in the tools it is only that the related astrology articles undelying the two are different. I'm using McDonnald's Astrology and pokep is developing his own.

It is a shame the two programs are not compatable. I could see a campaign wanting to use both but the underlying models are differnet. I don't think I'll be adding a horoison view of the stars, but the program I altered covers all sorts of transitions, astrologic configurations and etc.

The symsolon program altered to Harn offeres a fairly complete Astrological suite of tools. I'd like it to read out and interpet the results as well and that is something I might work on in the furture for the Earth version for my own use (my old astrology program is window 3.1 and objects to the vista environment).

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Member of the CoE (Council of Elitists)

Interesting to note: in a "Grand Syzygy" with all the actual planets aligned "in conjunction" the only planet visible would be Epeon - the rest would be behind the disk of the sun. There would be a very large tolerance for being in the conjunction range and nearly impossible to tell how well lined up they were.

If the moon was also in conjunction that would put everything behind the disk of the moon with a huge tolerance for being in conjunction. (And it would be a solar eclipse.)

In a Syzygy where the planets were in opposition to the sun their position relative to one another would be visible (not possible for Epeon which would be in conjunction/transit with the sun regardless of which side of the sun it was on relative to Kethira).

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Member of the CoE (Council of Elitists)