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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:37 pm 
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From. This book was published a few years back.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:19 am 
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I'm currently reading "The Last Wish", the first book in the Witcher series by Andrzej Sapkowski (darn those Polish names are hard to spell).

The fantasy element is rather far from Hârn's, but the political and social dynamics are similar. I also like the Eastern European view, which offers a nice change from the classical (Latin/Greek) or Anglo-Saxon myths we usually have in current medieval-fantasy.

Oh - and it's a damn good read. :D

Roland


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:38 am 
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Just started reading Song of Albion the first novel in The Paradise War by Stephen Lawhead which is a gem I somehow missed over the years and ordered the next three novels. Lot of Harnic undertones referencing Celtic folklore and cosmology.

Little things like the body of an Auroch (Extinct in 1627) found on a farm documented in a tabloid, cairns (plus their guardians), Sunwise circles, the various between times and places, or having Heather ale (disappearing in 1411 when the English killed the last Celtic Chief for refusing to share the secret of the legendary elixir) with an eccentric scholar willing to share the secret of the unusual beverage he is sharing with a chance met passing acquaintance.

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Aurochs
Fossil range: Late Pliocene to Holocene

Conservation status
Extinct (1627)

See Ur (rune) for the rune.
The aurochs or urus (Bos primigenius) was a very large type of cattle that was prevalent in Europe until its extinction in 1627. The animal's original scientific name, Bos primigenius, was meant as a Latin translation of the German term Auerochse or Urochs, which was (possibly incorrectly) interpreted as literally meaning "primeval ox" or "proto-ox". This scientific name is now considered invalid by ITIS, who classify aurochs under Bos taurus, the same species as domestic cattle. In 2003, however, the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature "conserved the usage of 17 specific names based on wild species, which are pre-dated by or contemporary with those based on domestic forms"[1], confirming Bos primigenius for the Aurochs. Taxonomists who consider domesticated cattle a subspecies of the wild Aurochs should use B. primigenius taurus; the name B. taurus remains available for domestic cattle where it is considered to be a separate species.

Heather Ale: A Galloway Legend

Robert Louis Stevenson (1850–94)

FROM the bonny bells of heather They brewed a drink long-syne, Was sweeter far than honey, Was stronger far than wine. They brewed it and they drank it, And lay in a blessed swound For days and days together In their dwellings underground.

There rose a king in Scotland, A fell man to his foes, He smote the Picts in battle, He hunted them like roes. Over miles of the red mountain He hunted as they fled, And strewed the dwarfish bodies Of the dying and the dead.

Summer came in the country, Red was the heather bell; But the manner of the brewing Was none alive to tell. In graves that were like children’s On many a mountain head, The Brewsters of the Heather Lay numbered with the dead.

The king in the red moorland Rode on a summer’s day; And the bees hummed, and the curlews Cried beside the way. The king rode, and was angry; Black was his brow and pale, To rule in a land of heather And lack the Heather Ale.

It fortuned that his vassals, Riding free on the heath, Came on a stone that was fallen And vermin hid beneath. Rudely plucked from their hiding, Never a word they spoke: A son and his aged father— Last of the dwarfish folk.

The king sat high on his charger, He looked on the little men; And the dwarfish and swarthy couple Looked at the king again. Down by the shore he had them; And there on the giddy brink— “I will give you life, ye vermin, For the secret of the drink.”

There stood the son and father And they looked high and low; The heather was red around them, The sea rumbled below. And up and spoke the father, Shrill was his voice to hear: “I have a word in private, A word for the royal ear.

“Life is dear to the aged, And honor a little thing; I would gladly sell the secret,” Quoth the Pict to the King. His voice was small as a sparrow’s, And shrill and wonderful clear: I would gladly sell my secret, Only my son I fear.

“For life is a little matter, And death is nought to the young; And I dare not sell my honor Under the eye of my son. Take him, O king, and bind him, And cast him far in the deep; And it ’s I will tell the secret That I have sworn to keep.”

They took the son and bound him, Neck and heels in a thong, And a lad took him and swung him, And flung him far and strong, And the sea swallowed his body, Like that of a child of ten;— And there on the cliff stood the father, Last of the dwarfish men.
“True was the word I told you: Only my son I feared; nor I doubt the sapling courage That goes without the beard. But now in vain is the torture, Fire shall never avail: Here dies in my bosom The secret of Heather Ale.”


Last edited by CASTLEMIKE on Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:56 pm 
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Roland de Ronceveaux wrote:
I'm currently reading "The Last Wish", the first book in the Witcher series by Andrzej Sapkowski (darn those Polish names are hard to spell).

The fantasy element is rather far from Hârn's, but the political and social dynamics are similar. I also like the Eastern European view, which offers a nice change from the classical (Latin/Greek) or Anglo-Saxon myths we usually have in current medieval-fantasy.

Oh - and it's a damn good read. :D

Roland


I have to admit that I didn't like it to much. I was very much reminded of Moorcock's Elric. BTW: The computergame "The Witcher" is based on the work by Sapkowski and is quite good.
tt.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:50 pm 
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tarwin wrote:
I have to admit that I didn't like it to much. I was very much reminded of Moorcock's Elric. BTW: The computergame "The Witcher" is based on the work by Sapkowski and is quite good.

Yes, great game.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:12 pm 
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Hi All,

I've just read 'Conqueror' by Stephan Baxter (ISBN: 978-0-575-08165-9) & thought I'd mention it as the story covers the period AD 607 to AD 1066.

The story focuses on a prophecy, the 'Menologium of Isolde,' and its effects on the history of Britain from just after the death of the last Roman till the Battle of Hastings. The only thing I found a little irritating is the chapters are awfully short (a couple of pages in some cases) until I realised they're supposed to be a snapshot of various events, I think.

Apparently this book is part of a series, though I haven't read any of the others - just picked this one up as it looked interesting.

Cheers,
Andy

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:53 am 
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More input is appreciated because vacation is coming nearer ;)
Never heard of Stephen Lawhead but it sounds interesting!
tt

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:28 am 
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Finished Scarlet yesterdaya and just finished the first in The Crucible series today and ordered the next two books. Agree The Crucible series by Sara Douglass it has a strong Harnic/medieval feel with the way the characters are thinking, viewing and interacting with their worlds.

Genghis: Birth of an Empire by Conn Iggulden was very good.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:13 am 
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Has anyone read any of Stan Nicholls's Orcs trilogy (Bodyguard of Lightning, Legion of Thunder and Warriors of the Tempest)? They look somewhat interesting (not really Hârnic, though) but I am curious what anyone here who has read them thought of them.

Apparently, these have been available in the UK and are now coming out in one big book in the US. They have an excerpt online, as well as a fun page that allows you to type in a message, send it to a friend, and have that message read to them in orcish. You can find it here: http://orbitbooks.net/banners/badguys/


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:23 am 
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After finishing some books Kerry Mould 'made' me buy at White Dwarf books in BC at HarnCon :wink: , last week I finished "1066: The Hidden History In The Bayeux Tapestry" a very interesting book that does a facinating task at examining this historically important ojbect from a fresh perspective. Even my local libraian mentioned it was one of the better books she had read on the Conquest.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:53 am 
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I'm interested. Could you tell us more about what type of fresh perspective it offers, Dan?

Cheers,

Roland


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:24 am 
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Sure thing Christophe. :D Here are two good reviews that touch on that:
Quote:
Bridgeford makes this a fascinating introduction, examining each scene and coordinating it with the written histories of the time. He is not, however, a professional historian, but a lawyer, and he has a case to argue. The tapestry has been interpreted the wrong way, he explains, and he means to set the matter straight. There is a good deal of guesswork and supposition in his explanation, but it is generally well-argued, and will make little difference to those who come to the tapestry without having been drilled in the old interpretations. Bridgeford does bring the tapestry to life, with its depictions of valor and brutality, and anyone reading his work is going to want to get to France someday to see the real thing.

The tapestry is not a tapestry at all, really, but an embroidery; the pattern is not in the weave of the fabric, but stitched into the linen. The illustrations consist of hundreds of human figures, plus horses, falcons, and dogs, set within forests, churches, castles, and ships. It is about 75 yards long and one yard wide, and was sewn almost a millennium ago. The battle depicted in the tapestry was brought about by the death of Edward the Confessor in December 1065, an event depicted about a third of the way along the tapestry. William of Normandy expected to be made king, but Harold Godwinson was given the nod by the dying Edward. William set forth to get the throne he thought was his, and of course when Harold fell in the Battle of Hastings, he succeeded. The view of the tapestry ever since has been that because the Normans won, and because victors get to write the histories, the tapestry is "a work of Norman triumphalism," made by Normans who wished to celebrate their just conquest. Bridgeford has taken scholarly works of the latter twentieth century to demonstrate that the tapestry necessarily tells of the Norman victory, but it gives an English version of events. For instance, the tapestry never refers to William's claim to the throne, showing Harold's nomination as lawful; Harold is not the usurper whose actions would have justified invasion. Harold is referred to as King Harold when he is depicted, but he was almost always in other Norman documents referred to by his former title Duke.

There is an enormous amount of evidence for this new hypothesis, attractively arranged and argued with legal skill. Part of the problem is that the tapestry is from so long ago, there are no written documents from its own time that refer to its story or how it was made, and there is an enormous amount of confusing and strange inclusions on the cloth. It thus has many panels that can be interpreted in various ways. Bridgeford knows this, and wisely includes many times a phrase like, "One further piece of intriguing evidence should be mentioned, though its import is unclear." The case, full of suppositions about spears that point to particular letters and animals on the cloth's border that illustrate a fable from Aesop that might apply in some way to the goings-on in the main pictures, is an interesting one, but for most people, the new ideas Bridgeford presents will be secondary. His book primarily serves as an excellent introduction to the tapestry and how mysterious it is, with many large voids of information about and within it. He also has drawn from other sources to describe a strange and turbulent time, and his descriptions of side issues, like the process of becoming a knight, are useful to the main story. The book is illustrated with small pictures to show the whole cloth, and enlargements of the panels to which Bridgeford pays particular attention. As an appreciation of a spectacular work of art, the book is fine guide, particularly in its explanation of symbolism that appealed to the medieval mind.


Quote:
Although the Tapestry is certainly famous, its origins and even the meanings of certain of its embroidered scenes are mysterious. In this book Bridgeford provides persuasive, if not necessarily final, answers to many of the old questions, including who was the patron who had the Tapestry created (Bridgeford believes it was Count Eustace of Boulogne, as a sort of peace offering to Bishop Odo, William's half-brother, who might have been just a little unhappy after Eustace had attacked the bishop's castle at Dover), who was Aelfgyva and what was she doing with that cleric (Aelfgyva was a rather popular name at the time, but Bridgeford argues that the Tapestry's Aelfgyva was the mother of Norway's Harold Harefoot, a rival contender for the English throne, and it was a reference to an old scandal, made to undermine the legitimacy of Harold's claim), and who the dwarf Turold was (Bridgeford speculates that the horse-holding Turold may have been the artist-designer of the Tapestry and the author of the famous Chanson de Roland). This is a book worth reading about one of the great art treasures of Europe and about one of the critical turning points of European history.


There are also some interesting family trees and color shots of the whole tapestry scene by scene. (Much of the book is a chapter history of the tapestry's known discovery in the 1400s and a complete walk through of each scene in order as they appear and their possible meanings. Further chapters deal with specific topics of interest.)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:35 pm 
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All right :D , thanks.

Christophe


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:40 am 
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Currently rereading "England Under the Norman and Angevin Kings, 1075-1225": http://www.alibris.com/search/books/isbn/0199251010
By Lanari, I forgot how good this book was. It really is one of the core books a serious student of history should have.

Siem help me, I'm now playing the computer game "Mount & Blade". Before this addiction, Kerry Mould made me buy this neat little book: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/k/kat ... rusade.htm
It has a bunch of nice short stories that could be quickly adapted and used in a Harn game.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:02 pm 
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dont know if anyone else has mentioned it , Im to lazy to scroll down to the bottom of the posts but the saxson cronicals by Bernard Cornwell set in "England" (actualy Wesex, Mercia and Northumbria) circa 870-885AD ar pretty good I'm sure Mr Cornwell didn't write them as such but i would call all four of the books sofar 'gamer's novels'

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:54 am 
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Just finished reading The Soul Thief by Cecelia Holland which was pretty good. Son of a Irish manor lord out to rescue his twin sister the day after he is exiled and she is kidnapped by "Viking" raiders who kill the men, loot the manor and enslave the women. I would have liked Corban to have just a little more common sense. Scavenge the manor for more than a little food a stick and sling before heading out. Giving away the boat instead of trading something for it. Keeping the horse to sell instead of just the bridle.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:49 pm 
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I haven't read thorugh the entire thread, but Bestiary is a 13th century book, translated from latin, that describe every know animal (real or not) that, at that time, they considered to be real.

Every beast is described, followed by an illumination from the original Latin text (from England).
Very engrossing.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:34 am 
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Some older but good books for a Harn type world IMO are Robert E Howard's Cormac Mac Art. This is set in Dark Ages Britain, not real histrically accurate but at least a basis in history.

It's also got far less of the supernatural for the most part than the Conan books, and Cormac while a great fighter is not the "put my back to the wall and slay 50 opponents" Conan type.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Hi there

There is a (french) movie called "Rencontre avec le Dragon" (English title : "The Red Knight") that might be very easily adapted to Harn.

I loved it, the story and the atmosphere. It seems IMDB didn't (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0322082/).

Good day to all

Gilles


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:08 pm 
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For an excellent example for a monastary, try "The Hawk and the Dove"
I have not upacked all my books yet from my move, so I cannot tell you the author.

The first half of the book is a collection of short stories about a group of monks in medieval England.
The abbot of the monastary is a former knight whose hands were mangled for some perceived crime (I believe it was lusting after the wrong woman). But, without the use of his hands, he cannot be a knight, so he becomes a monk. In time, he then becomes the Abbot.

Very good for some political intrigue among different orders and even within a monastary.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:13 am 
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rexalan wrote:
For an excellent example for a monastary, try "The Hawk and the Dove"
I have not upacked all my books yet from my move, so I cannot tell you the author.

The first half of the book is a collection of short stories about a group of monks in medieval England.
The abbot of the monastary is a former knight whose hands were mangled for some perceived crime (I believe it was lusting after the wrong woman). But, without the use of his hands, he cannot be a knight, so he becomes a monk. In time, he then becomes the Abbot.

Very good for some political intrigue among different orders and even within a monastary.

It looks like there are two trilogies with that name. This one is the historical fiction Rexalan mentioned and this one is romance.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:59 am 
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Bernard Cornwell's new novel, Agincourt, is about (surprise surprise) an english archer at the famous battle. While it is a little late for most Harnic tastes, it does give a good look at many medieval ideas that existed throughout the middle ages. The research is good, though I'm personally a little wary of how high he rates the longbow in terms of penetration against plate.
1215, Year of the Magna Carta, by Danziger (and someone else, I can't remember just now) is another good book about life during the early 13th century in England. Not terribly long, but an informative read.


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 8:48 am 
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I agree with the poster on the first page of this thread who recommended the Osprey books -- mostly for those gorgeous color plates, but also for the text (usually good concise accounts of the military history of the periods covered).
If someone's ever wanted to take a character from Orbaal or Ivinia on a really epic adventure, Poul Anderson's "The Last Viking" series (a biographical novel trilogy about Harald Hardraada -- a distant ancestor of mine! :)) would provide plenty of inspiration.
As inspiration for spunky female Orbaalese characters, I remember borrowing from the library once a volume from a historical mystery series whose sleuth was a ca. 7th-cent. (? -- I remember the Council of Whitby was a historical event in the book) Irish nun who had received bardic training equivalent to that of an Orbaalese lawspeaker. (Sorry I can't recall title or author offhand -- if someone else has read the same series, perhaps you can help there?) The series was a bit like the Brother Cadfael books, but set in an earlier period.


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 8:51 am 
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Just checked Amazon.com -- those were the Sister Fidelma mysteries, by Peter Tremayne.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:02 am 
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Greetings all,
Though having been aware of Harn since 1988 or so, I've only recently purchased Harnic materials, and I'm very glad to have waited so that I can appreciate the level of work that has gone into this setting.

Anyhow I just received a book through ILL:
1381: The Peel Affinity, an English Knight's Household in the Fourteenth Century.

It is a photo essay book by a reenactment group showing a year in the life of a knight's household. It has tons of full color pictures and is a great inspiration for perhaps more developed areas of Lythia, or for those pHarns that are set later. For me. it will be invaluable for areas like Shorkyne and Trierzon.

Here is a link to some images from the book.


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