No matter what other system I think of using to fuel Harnworld, and even though Harnworld was initially created as a systemless setting, I come up against a brick wall every time. Harnworld's Magic and the structure and philosophy therein.

For example, Open Quest. I very good stripped down version of Runequest. It has Divine Magic, Battle Magic, and Sorcery. Basically.

But then how do you translate that, or any other system of magic into the magic concept of Harnworld? For me, the specific problem is the six convocations.

Translating Battle, Divine, and Sorcery into: Lyahvi, Peleahn, Jmorvi, Fyvria, Odivshe, and Savorya

How do you resolve this situation, if indeed you've tackled it?

Thanks all

I don't know how "battle magic" is defined, but I would at least consider that:

"Divine Magic" is, in HMR terms, not "magic" per se. It's Ritual invocations and thus outside the scope of the convocations. Not that you can't utilize a similar mechanic, but I wouldn't try to shoehorn that into one or more convocations.

"Sorcery" would seem to cover all the convocations (again, not knowing what "battle magic" is defined as).

I've wrestled with this issue, and have the following two thoughts to offer:

#1) If you're seeking to use a system that has elemental-based magic (like GURPS, Burning Wheel's Sorcery rules, or even Ars Magica), where spells are grouped together based on the 'element' or class of objects (e.g. plants, animals, etc.) they affect, adapation of those rules to reflect the six Pvaric convocations is pretty easy. For instance, just say that mages are limited to casting spells of certain elements based on the Convocation they have chosen to be. For example, just say Odivshe mages can only use "Water" spells, and maybe any light/dark spells that pertain to darkness, etc. This can be done on an ad hoc, basis, or it can be done with a more formal writeup... but the key thing, IMHO, to avoid the temptation to re-write the system's magic rules in an attempt to turn it into Harnmaster Magic. Not only is that a lot of work, it's not necessary. All you really need is something to mimic the basic feel/function of convocationality.

#2) If the system's magic rules are not elemental-based, adapation can either be easy or impossible, depending on what those rules are. If you're playing a game where magic is largely open-ended and/or effect-based, you can do this simply by requiring that a magical effect be described in a convocationally plausible way. For example, in Burning Wheel's "Art Magic" option for rules, a mage uses magic to achieve one of 10 desired effects, one of which is to create a sorcerous blade. One could just require that in this system, the mage specify, "I'm creating a flaming scythe (if Peleahn); an icy spear (if Odivshe); a heavy cudgel (Fyvria), etc. The mechanical effects would be the same no matter what-- the convocations would just provide 'color/flavor', rather than have mechanical ramifications.

On the other hand, if the system provides highly detailed mechanics for magic that seems to have a completely different basis (e.g. summoning/binding of spirits/gods/demons) than the sort of elemental spell-casting, it may be that it really is incommensurate for Pvaric convocations. In that case, the most effective options are probably either NOT use that system and to instead use one that's based on some sort of elemental principles; or just to say farewell to the convocations and use the system as written, accepting that it will result in a slightly different kind of feel to the arcane elements of the Harnworld setting.

_________________
-- Jim Chokey

"Argent, chief embattled tenne. A coney of the field and crossed carrots proper"

I use the Hero system, so to me it's pretty trivial. All magic works the same - doesn't matter if it is divine ritual or sorcery. Doesn't matter if the caster is a priest, wizard, alchemist, or old crone tossing hexes. Magic is just another skill, no different from horseback riding and swordplay.

The key is to use social rules in the campaign world to make the magic different, not gaming mechanics. Runemasters must carve or draw a rune, then invoke then power of the rune. Shek P'var look down on any spellcasters needing to use gestures and invocations, but do not allow summoning and necromancy. Summoners depend on bribing or forcing other-planar beings to do their will, but totally ignore illusions. Alchemists need lots of funky ingredients that are often difficult to acquire. Priests usually learn a few select spells by rote, but have little understanding of the ways of magic and cannot improvise or create new spells.

The practitioners of all these different styles see themselves as being very different, but the gaming mechanics are the same. Each style of magic has advantages and disadvantages associated with it. There's a general set of guidelines about what is or is not known to the practitioners, the campaign power limits, etc. The practitioner of a style is expected to act as appropriate for that style, and as GM I would not let them learn any magic that does not fit the style they choose.

P'varism is merely one philosophy of magic. Of all the 'secret societies' within the Guild of Arcane Lore, the Shek P'var are the largest, best organized, and most 'confident' in their beliefs, but they do not have a monopoly on the truth. You can bring any magical system that you like into your p-Harn. Give it a name and consider it a "minority view".

You may choose to assume that your system is a generally known, but unpopular philosophy, and thus accessible to any GoAL member. (Of course, your PCs will be frequently advised, 'You'll never make Shenava studying that!") Or you can invent a secret society like the Shek P'var, and salt the world with some chantries. In the latter case, you might enjoy playing out the rivalry with the Shek P'var, and your PCs might find themselves opposed by P'varists in various ways.

In game terms, your only difficultly is translating the NPC P'varists into your game rules. But it's pretty easy to 'wing' that.

Note that most game systems focus on battle and adventuring magic. But to a real arcanist, those seem like parlor tricks. Throwing fireballs around doesn't bring the lorist any closer to learning the deep secrets of the universe. The typical lorist has no plans to explore gargun tunnels or Khuzan ruins, so it shouldn't be surprising that they prefer to study the more subtle forms of magic. It should be fairly rare that you need to translate the typical P'varist NPC's capabilities into explicit game terms. And wizard duels among the Shek P'var are usually polite(?) debates, not fits of destructive spellcasting. (A 'real' duel in most chantries would be as exciting as a slapfight between physics professors.)

I often ran Hero System, where the players get to make up the spells. I worked with my players and let them work out their own 'philosophies', with varying levels of affinity for P'varism.

My advice is much as others before me. I have to admit though that the option pokep came up with of making the player's magical understanding a rival to Shek P'var, a different philosophy if you will, had not occurred to me; brilliant!

I use the Savage Worlds rules which are very generic and contain an equally generic set of rules for magic. To impose the Shek P'var philosophy on top of that is really quite easy. All you need to do is look at how the effect comes about. Then all you have to do is adjust to suit the six convocations. As has been suggested already, simply adapt the effect to whatever school is using it. For my example I'll use Bolt from SW; this spell basically summons a mystic force that strikes one target kind of like an arrow and does some damage. So, in the Shek P'var sense, the spell could be described as follows:

Peleahn: a flaming arrow
Odivshe: a glittering ice spear, or a bolt of dark shadow (or even a column of water)
Jmorvi: a glittering steel spear, an iron bolt, etc.
Fyvria: a spear of holly, mistletoe or even a column of earth
Lyhavi: a bright shaft of light, or roaring column of air
Savorya: a ghostly presence strikes the target, a mental blast shatters the mind of the target, etc.

All it takes is a little thought.

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Leitchy
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