Anyone own this one? I'm very tempted to buy it. Anyone got any views on it? I'm assuming zero magoc and zero 'creatures'

The map alone is worth the price of admission. It is very similar to the HarnDex, but applied to the England of Richard I. I think this is a fantastic book, and has inspired several English campaigns. I cannot recommend it any stronger.

Just my 2d

T

Thank you kindly.

I'm assuming (again) it would be relatively easy to insert magic and magical creatures if needed?

I have had Lionheart since it came out. The map is great. One of CGI's best products in my opinion.

I have played silk-screenheart, but never linoheart.

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cheers,

Mitch Gore
(aka Lestatdelc)
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On Hârn... magic is a weapon, the gods are a mystery, intrigue is everywhere, and dragons are real.

I like Lionheart. Think of it as a Harndex / Harnworld product for England around the year 1200. As was said, it has a beautiful map. It has no fantastic elements, however.

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"Your logic is flawless. But that doesn't mean you're right." - Tedd Good

Yes, you could - the people of the time certainly believed them to be present. You would need to be careful, though, and make it subtle because the world does not, of course, bear the 'marks' of the existence of overt (fireball-style) magic...

At the risk of repetition, it is an excellent product and truly one of a kind. The map has some small errors, though - Towcester is in completely the wrong place, IIRC. It still looks awesome, though...

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Balesir
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- Eschew Obfuscation!

Its use is marginal at best.
Combined with Ars Magica or Pendragon its becomes usable.

It is very much a HarnDex for England in much less detail. (of course you have historical data to draw from for a British campaign)

The map is great.

It's a decent game aid. The full potential is in combination with other books, i.e. the old "Robin Hood" Campaign book from I.C.E. (for Rolemaster/MERP/Fantasy Hero, includes two outlaw campaigns: classic Robin Hood and historical during english civil war between Stephen and Maud. 1987, ISBN 0-9275795-28-0) or Ars Magica

If you want to add some magic I recommend some of the Ars Magica titles of the 4th and 5th edition too, like "Hedge Magic", "Kabbalah", and the different "Realms of Power" (Magic, Divine, Infernal, Faries).

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Michael - visit Tales of Chybisa.com.

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

The map in Lionheart is beautiful. If a campaign based in England is being considered you should buy the book.

How much does the Lionheart book deal with Christianity?

I ask because I want to replace it with something else.

Well, since it is England, there are monasteries, abbeys, convents, cathedrals, etc., and all the people associated with them. Just declare these to be for another deity, and you'll be okay.

Lionheart isn't a set of rules or an adventure - it's a setting. It's England in the year 1190, and tries to be historically accurate. It's for those of us that like historical fiction. There is no magic or monsters, because these don't exist in the real world.

Edit - 1190 is the correct year, not 1100. There is a difference, to hear the history majors tell it.

Yes I like the idea of no magic, nothing fantastical, just the historical. But this is only because it leaves me with a lot of room to create my own. It's going to be very subtle, dark and gritty.

Not quite sure what to do about the Christianity influence though. I was thinking of substituting it for 'Mithraism'.

You could supplement this swap with a cult of Isis, worshipping the female principles of nature.

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Michael - visit Tales of Chybisa.com.

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

I don't what to appear negative, but why would you substitute one religion for another? The advantage of retaining the Christian religion is that all the information you want or need to involve religious institutions fully in the campaign is already there. Anther advantgae is that it's well known to the players (unless, of course, all your players happen to be Muslim or Buddist!)

Substituting Mithraism means you lose the advantages...or at least have a lot of re-thinking and re-jigging to do, so the Religious Institutions fit with the new philosophies.

It would be easier to substitute a completely fantasy-based religion. Laranianism would be a good choice, as would Agrikanism. Heck, you could plaster over the Christian religion with pretty much all the organised religions from HarnWorld!

(By that I means some abbeys would follow Larani, some Save K'nor, some Halea, some Agrik, and so on.)

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Cheers

Leitchy
List & Forum Admin
Admin FAQs
[Updated 25-FEB-2011]

The reason for the change is that two of the players are Christian, and having Christianity part of the game comes across as disrespectful, even if it's done in the best possible taste.

Good idea with the Larani suggestion.

Hmmm...my only comment would be that if you portray the situation with an eye to historical accuracy and evenhandedly, then your friends should surely have no objection.
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Hang on, we're talking about the medieval Church here...yes, your friends would be insulted!



Much of modern organized Christianity is insulting enough; the medieval Church much, much more so. (And there wasn't much that was "Christian" about it, either.)

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Cheers

Leitchy
List & Forum Admin
Admin FAQs
[Updated 25-FEB-2011]

If they are Christians then they should forgive you. (Sorry Bill Hicks for stealing a line).

I think you should speak to these these players. I would be surprised if they found an accurate representation of the medieval christian church disrespectful...if they did they should blame the medieval christain church...not you or the game.

If they actually have a problem with the mere representation of christian historical figures; then I suggest they talk to their priest or equivalent to get guidance on how to move forward with this. The mainstream church has sponsored representation of historical figures for a long time; and not not always in a gloss over any controversy way. I would be surprised if the advice was to avoid even controversial representation, as long as thought and discussion was involved. Non mainstream sects/denominations may vary on this I have no idea.

If they feel you are presenting a politicised agenda then fair enough.

To me it seems almost a gift from Heaven in plot lines, choose a historical nasty..and have the players try and un-mask him...with all the pesky plot devices preventing this until he privately repents to them and thus his faithful public image!!!!

(PS. Ages ago in Pendragon we have had a Muslim playing a Christian Knight who through circumstance ended up killing muslims in a mosque. This clearly caused pause for thought; but in the end the conclusion was "It is a game". Also a role-playing game whereby the player acted 'appropriately' within the mores of the character. These things certainly happened in the crusades (my Pendargon timeline may been a little out); and the judgements were more on the mindsets of some christians and otherts at the time, not on ourselves or the makers of the game.)

Replacing it Larani is an easy way to go though

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

I'm thinking it would be a lot easier all round to use the church of Larani.

Thanks all

How much coverage does the supplement give to Wales, Scotland and Ireland?

Anyone?

All are pretty much covered.

It reads like the Harndex though....so alphabetical entries and map locations.....

Thanks for that DucatiDon