So I had this thought about the idea of an alliance between Trierzon and the Harbaalese Pendragon, which perhaps begins as a fight over territory in Hurisea but ends up being an invasion of Shorkyne on two fronts. Does this seem theoretically feasible? I was reasoning that the Trierzi Queen Regent and her council deem it unlikely that the Harbaalese will do much more than do a lot of raiding in northern Shorkyne (focusing on Alagon, Loala and Malpynia) and also perhaps occupy parts of Hurisea, but that this will be a distraction enough to possibly do a good push into Shorkyne from the south, possibly obtaining a switch in allegiances with some of the southern Shorka great magnates.

Mostly from the point of view of my campaign I wanted a plot involving an attempt by a Harbaalese greatclan to push into Loala simultaneously with a secret plot to capture King Gerlens and hold him for a serious ransom.

Could Trierzon mass a large enough fraction of their forces against Shorkyne to do any real harm? Most of their forces have to watch the borders with Azeryan. You might also manufacture a crisis of sorts in Azeryan.
Could they coordinate their forces closely enough? Certainly, it would be better for the Trierzi if the Harbaalse went first, and thus drew many Shorkynian forces north; but for the Harbaalers it would be best if the Trierzi went first. Who can trust the other?

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Laboro diem, carpe noctem.

I was thinking after reading your thoughts that maybe there is some kind of political upheaval in Azeryan--maybe the Emperor is dead or there has been an attempted coup d'etat or even a plague of some kind. Maybe even both? If this were the case then maybe plans, which have been argued and discussed a great deal, come to fruition at last?

It seems to make sense to me that because there was a relatively recent attack on Sonise, and because pirate attacks have taken place from Alagon to Loala that this might be ultimately leading up to a major attack, and because of the restlessness of certain Great Clans but with Chelemby off the target list for now.

Trierzon have attacked Shorkyne before. The most serious attempt happened when Azeryan had a major civil war. I can't see them going first. They have a regency not a strong warrior king. But they might be tempted to exploit Shorkynes vunerability should that kingdom be attacked from another direction. Laying siege to one or two keeps would be the sort of involvment I would expect.

However wars might just happen when local conflicts escalate. Ledenheim and Aneola might get involved in a conflict in Hurisea that draws in their overlords. Add some Quarph and Lankori involvment and you get a spicy mix.

In one of my campaigns some of the Quarph principalities where united leading to war with Lankor. Some of the Hurisean principalities were eventually involved.

How did that campaign go? Mind if I borrow some of your ideas?

Raid Yes War No. In Kaldor you can see many of the Nobles already building up their resources of men and wealth under the expectations of a war.

Huge amount of resources and support needed to maintain a war (scale) vice raiding (free booting). There is a large support structure behind every warrior on the front lines which diverts resources.

People die, replacements need to be found, trained and equipped which is expensive and time consuming.

Ships will be lost on both sides due to nature and war as one aspect of infrastructure.

In a war the invaded country will quickly adapt and start destroying resources to deny them to the enemy. Slowing their advance. Forcing them to provision themselves along their own supply lines requiring resource and personnel support which they will attack and raid. Easy to raid but usually hard to hold and keep your position.

In war you can win big and lose big afterwards: land and reparations.

A decisive victory for one side or the other is not necessary for the success of the PCs' campaign. In fact, it may actually work against happy players. The Harbaalese may just make demonstration raids in several locations in addition to trying to seriously take one by seige or coup-de-main. The Trierzi might make some demonstrations here or there to distract the Shorkynians, after the Harbaalers made a large cash payment to the Trierzi in return for their aid. After all, what do the PCs know of the larger conflict except for what the GM tells them?
If, for example, the PCs take a castle by coup-de-main, at the start of the Harbaalese campaign, then they would want to spend their time and effort consolidating their grip while the campaign continues elsewhere, and hope that the castle is not given back in the peace negotiations.

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Laboro diem, carpe noctem.

What makes most sense then as a target? Kolare? Alagon? Malpynia?

Alagon's too strong. It's naval strength is probably the strongest of all the Shorkyni Telkoran and Clan Pelanby can call on allies from Chelemby, Palithane, Harbaal itself and quite possibly Elmerene.
You'd have to be insane or have overwhelming military power to attack them.

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"You're gonna cut off the Dragon's what?"

Which source are you using for that?

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"You're gonna cut off the Dragon's what?"

A different scenario à la early Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar (later called El Cid) in Spain:

A raiding mercenary band: He who pays the piper calls the tune.

Does nobody pay, the band raids for its own benefits.

Inspired by and freely adapted from Frank Baer's - Die Brücke von Alcantara / El puente de Alcantara.

This scenario could be placed at almost any Shorkyne malniren such as Loàla, Dumala or Kolare, i.e..

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everybodyTHINKShimselfSOwellSUPPLIEDwithCOMMONsenseTHATevenTHOSEmostDIFFICULTto PLEASEneverDESIREmoreOFitTHANtheyALREADYhave. RENEdescartes.

War is indeed costly. I am afraid I do not know the mainland well enough to comment in minutaie...but I would like to put forward my twopenneth regarding motivations generally..

The 100 years war; to give an example, arose when a throne became vacant; and two strong 'houses'...legitimately... vied for that throne with military means. Which sort of means 'legitimate' noble hunger/greed for a grand 'ole prize meant the cost might have been worth it.....

Does this opportunity exist in mainland lythia? (I am struck by the lack of interconnectivity of foreign noble houses generally in Harn).

1066 and all that to use an earlier example; also had 'legitimacy' at it's heart. And also was started by the vacancy of a throne. (albeit short lived.) Again a big prize and pseudo legitamacy lurking in the great hall.

So if I were to engineer a war; I would look for a big prize; a vacant throne; competing legitimacy; and greedy (aren't they all ) noble houses.

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

I'm using the fanon articles and maps for Trierzon. I agree that it has a regency.

Good points about Alagon. Looking over the material, while Trierzon has a regency it also has a King who is going to come of age, and the Queen Mother seems to have a good handle on things. Shorkyne could only have a vacant throne if several members of House Dalame were to die suddenly. Going by the Shorkyne module King Lerden Elendy of Avastran favors military expansion, but the module suggests that there are very good reasons why there is no obvious and easy target.

sard's idea perhaps has some merit, and in the Loala material it talks about even recent viking raids and so on. So I may ultimately go with that instead. I'm thinking of possibly having raids against the Ostrian Penninsula, and perhaps an agent of the Crown using this as an excuse to strongly suggest that Trepura should become a free town if Loala cannot protect the area, requiring the pcs (as vassals/servants of the Countess) to go and deal with the matter.

I'd dispute that Iniella is regent of Trierzon although Dalhaga II is far from in control. To quote Fanon:
However that's by the by really.

I think the most interesting and dynamic conflict in the region is Trierzon vs. Palithane. Keeps changing hands on a regular basis, an expected Palithane push on the coast. Any of the Harbaalese great clans could easily get caught up in those conflicts and all or any of them could escalate quite easily.

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"You're gonna cut off the Dragon's what?"

On the Trierzon "regency". When I wrote the Trierzon module I didn't envisage Iniella as actually regent for the young king - just an overbearing mother with a lot of influence over both the king and in court. That said, make Dalhaga a couple of years younger if it suits your plot and you have your regency.

An interesting complication to any potential Trierzi/Shorkyne war is the position taken by thepowerful nobles holding lands in both countries. I can't remember the names at present, but there are at least two houses that hold large fiefs in both countries. It would be worth while looking at which lands they hold and thinking about what role they decide to take in the war.

In general, a Trierzi attack on Shorkyne is not out of the question. The young king might want a chance to get out from under mother's shadow (or some of his more powerful vassals might see it as an opportunity to get him out from under her shadow). The key question is how does Trierzon secure the Azeryan and Palithane borders? Remember, if the Pelanbys of Alagon consider themselves threatened they can probably cause trouble on the Trierzi border with Palithane via the Palithanian branch of the family.

A war or plague in Azeryan deLs with one border, but what is happening in Palithane. Perhaps the Trierzon alliance with Harbaal includes the Harbaalese Pelanbys, in which case one can presume that the duke of Ensel and the Shorkyne king are the main targets for Trierzon/Harbaal, and the duke of Alagon expects to come out ahead...

Cheers,
De Coucy

I've always thought of the Pelanby's as similar to William of Normandy's ancestors, there are a lot of similarities between Alagon and the Norman house founded by Rollo in France in 911 AD.

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Hmm Gurthang. What a nice name for a sword....

The Telkoren of Vadone's House Medaro has claim to the Malniren of Sendalo in Trierzon. The Telkor of Stalfore apparently wants to marry her to increase his house.

The Malnira of Sabinia, reckoned one of the most beautiful women in Shorkyne, is also being much courted. She should (but may not) inherit the Malniren of Faldin and Baldime. I think this one is the weak link--the operative word in the module being might. I need to read up on the Trierzon module again to see what the complications here are.

This is another good possibility. Again, more reading up I need to do now. It's very enjoyable though.

So this kind of scenario suggests that others develop in the subsequent brawling then?

I like your latter scenario. So in a way then Loala's involvement might almost be incidental, since Trepura is simply a convenient stopping place along the current. Also it strikes me that the Duke of Alagon is generally more energetic, decisive and has better allies than the Duke of Ensel.

What do you think of a "Red Wedding" scenario to remove the King of Shorkyne as a potential obstacle?

According to canon, specifically Kelestia Productions Venarive publication, Trierzon is presently ruled by King Mirgael IV alrid Artain. (Fanon may say something else, but that's what happens.)

And a closer look at Venarive will reveal that Trierzon is in no mood for an adventure in Shorkyne in 720, with or without Harbaaler help. There are conflicts brewing on two and possibly all four of its frontiers.

I was going to get to Venarive but you beat me to it.
For some weird reason I've found that I haven't actually properly read it yet. Some sort of mistake there surely.
(Probably because I hadn't gotten around to printing off a copy and I hate reading sizeable tomes on screen.)

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"You're gonna cut off the Dragon's what?"

I am in exactly the same situation; with varying degrees for all my electronic purchases

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Plots and schemes are the same thing..

It seems like the most likely aggressor in Trierzon is the Duke of Stalfore. It also seems likely that Palithane might be a likely area for his aggression. One thing I'm trying to puzzle out are the Telthael and Medaro clan connections. It seems that those are pivotal as both clans own land on both sides of the border, and that there may be complications with inheritance, but it doesn't seem likely it would have to be resolved immediately. So it seems to me that marriage is the mostly likely move at this stage of things. It's interesting as a plotline.

Maybe I'm reaching but it seems to me that if I were the King of Shorkyne I might want to influence the Duchess of Vadone and the Countess of Sabinia to marry in such a way as to reduce the likelihood of conflict on the Karetan Plains. According to the Shorkyne module the Privy Seal is a fairly good spymaster and so it seems likely he would know of the Duke of Stalfore's interest in trying to marry into Clan Medaro. So what would a likely plan be? Encouraging such a match, or discouraging it by trying to get the Duchess to marry someone else?