One pretty obvious campaign hook in the Tharda republic module is clan Nordakas project with the Aramal road. The basics are the Nordakas interest in the founding of a new seaport in the Gulf of Chakro linked by a new road to their Telen center of power. The canon material states this not being a very popular project with influential parts of the senate and in particular not in favor with Moleryn who would suffer losses in trade on the Salt route. My concern is that both the Aramal road and the new seaport is clearly within the Ramala province governed from Moleryn. How come the Moleryn interests is against the idea of a seaport? The possible sites are very close to the salt route so connecting a new seaport to Moleryn instead of Telen would I fact be much easier. Moleryn is also the provincial capital of the Ramala province and would have greater possibilities to raise a claim or “steal” the project. But this possible interest from Moleryn in the project is not discussed in the canon material, it only states they being against the whole idea, I find this a bit odd, comments anyone?

Well, I can't say so much about the Moleryn issue but in my p-harn (game year 724 TR) the Aramal project has not been implemented mostly becouse the costs of such a project and the security problem. Keep in mind that even west Harn is not directly overpopulated and workforce, guards and settlers for the new port needs to be taken from other settlements/tasks. To be implemented the project probably needs a full economical and moral backing of the senate. And in the early 720:s the thardic senate seems a little bit too divided for that to happen.

just my 2d

/morgan.

In my P Harn a port of sorts has been established with the aid of the Peonian Church and their mission to the Domi Goyzida. It is a haven for ships caught against the lee shore, a safe spot for water and repairs and trading with the local Goyzida for fish, produce etc. to reprovision ship's stores. The road has not yet been established, but a trail, marginally passable to carts when it is dry (Is it ever dry on Harn?) exists to the north as far as the Salt route. Another, passable to foot and mounted traffic, including pack animals, extends west to Ibonost along the south edge of the Teb Marshes.

The reasons the road is opposed by the Ramala province interests and the Eidel province interests are, as I understand them:

1. A road connecting Telen to the coast directly would bypass Coranan and Kuseme and possibly Moleryn, giving merchants from the upper Thard valley access to the Salt Route and the sea without spreading the wealth (in the form of tolls, bonding fees, and normal travel expenses etc.) to the above named cities. Telen would have to have a major ferry or a bridge and all the infrastructure to support a major crossing point. The influence and income of Marshall Kronos and his cronies would be reduced and the influence and income of the Nordakas and their associates would increase.

2. A road connecting Telen to the coast would require the pacification of or co-operation with the Goyzida. Kronos would not mind seeing them pacified on the model of the Solari Crusade in Melderyn, but this is unlikely as they have a "safe haven" across the border in Kanday. The Kandaian crown has a historic relationship of friendship with these tribes, or at least some of them, and will not look kindly on forces chasing them across the border in a campaign of extermination.

3. Because of the above, the most likely route to making the project a success would involve the crown of Kanday as a friendly broker in establishing good relations with the Goyzida. Kronos does not like the Goyzida. Kronos does not like the house of Kand. Kronos has the influence to say, "No." in the Senate and make it stick.

4. Such a road and port would make the upper Thard stronger commercially and politically by making it less dependent on the lower Thard for its commercial connection to the rest of the world. And since the Nordaka clan control key parcels of land along the proposed route, their influence in the upper Thard valley would wax as well.

So, IMC, the Nordakas have bypassed the Senate, using religious and commercial resources to get the ball rolling on the project. Though the Peonians have not made many converts among the Goyzida, they have established friendly relations and a mutual respect between the missionaries, knowledgable in medicine and agriculture, and the Goyzida in the area where the port will be located. (Location of the actual port is a natural harbor discovered south of any previously surveyed site and right on the Kandaian border, making Kanday a stakeholder in the venture.)

By moving to make the port a self sustaining mission and trading post first, the Nordakas are hoping to create a natural demand for the road project. It will, as mariners and merchants become aware of it and accustomed to using it, become a center of gravity. Much easier to sell a road to "someplace" than to sell a road into the howling wilderness.

The Nordakas have also dealt "family to family" with the house of Kand on issues involving the port. The occasional trips of the Sherrif of Peris to Shiran have provided cover for contacts at the highest level when matters negotiated between representatives of the two houses needed to be finalized. This has allowed them to avoid "government to government" contacts where the opponents of the project might have been able to sabotage the negotiations. These agreements remain secret, as do the negotiations which have produced them.

My PCs have been involved in the exploration, some of the missionary activity and the negotiations between Nordaka and the Goyzida and between Nordaka and Kand. Also, in liason between Nordaka and the Peonian Church. Those of them who have become known to Marshall Kronos are almost as popular with him as Cobart and Amerak Nordaka.

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There is a chair and an NPC for visitors on Saturdays. We play most weeks. PM me. "You will always be my friend. You know too much."

Neither the magistrate of Moleryn nor his deputies or the Marshal have any interest in long term development and the local merchants are too weak to get rid of them. Who should press this interest?

I don't, IMC, see the house of Kand, and the current King of Kanday especially, as opposed to the developement of Armal, or IMC Peonu's Haven. The coast is dangerous without an established harbour and attendant aids to navigation. Leave Aleath bound east and it is a long way to a safe place to put in if you have trouble.

And while a port on that coast might eventually take some of the upper Thard's traffic away from Aleath, if the road was good and the other costs reasonably competative, that is a long way off. A look at the map shows that a port due west of Ibonost is a long way from most of Aleath's natural market area. Aleath will not lose much business, even in the long run, unless Aleath's costs are wildly higher than Peonu's Haven's costs.

The developement of a friendly port on the east coast may, eventually, foster developement in eastern Kanday. An outlet is provided for the goods of the Domi Goyzida who now must paddle or sail their canoes to Aleath to trade and so only market high value goods. Eventually, if successful, such a port could bring them into a market economy and make them part of "civilized" Harn. But, that's a far piece down the road. And anyway better than a war to exterminate them on the Tharda-Kanday border such as Kronos proposes.

As for the Tulwyn, its a far way off their patch. West of Taztos, on the southern edge of the range of the Mimei Goyzida and within the area populated mostly by the Domi. To take forceful exception to the town the Tulwyn would have to contest two relatively robust tribes on their home ranges.

The proposed route of the road is, of course, another matter. Passing through the territory of the Ramali Goyzida, much of the proposed route would be open to harrasment from the Ramali, probably trivial and ineffectual, and from the Tulwyn, which could be significant. The road is an all Tharda no Kanday project and does not look so easy to accomplish as the trading post and safe haven on the coast. Providing security along much of the route will be difficult, as will luring merchants to use it while security is an issue. Still, merchants use the Salt Route every spring and fall. And security there is also problematic.

Wm

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There is a chair and an NPC for visitors on Saturdays. We play most weeks. PM me. "You will always be my friend. You know too much."

The king of Kanday is not loyal to (the freetown of) Aleath, he is loyal to Kanday. If a new harbour would be in the best interest of the kingdom, he would not care much about the sufferings of the aleathian merchants. But for a new harbour (and road) to be supported by the king, it must fully be under control of Kanday, not shared or challanged by the Thardic's.. thats's the problem (apart from people, financing etc.. )

As in medieval kingdoms, the king will support the city that supports him and his exchequer.

However, you are right, a king will not share power with another kingdom/republic in such a venture, especially one that is liable to turn on him in the future.

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Roy Denton - the title says Baron, but Queen for a year. (Cheselyne I)

"Nathamh na hoibre an t-eolas"
(Knowledge comes through practice)

I have let this sit for a few days and re-read the posts.

I find the objections to the house of Kand's playing nice with the house of Nordaka plausable, but I think that an equally valid case can be made the other way. It depends how much Andisan knows and how he sees the short and long term prospects for various elements of the project.

1) The presence of a save haven for shipping between Elfshaven and Aleath would probably increase seabourne trade between east and west Harn near, medium and long term. Even long term the benefit of increased traffic might well outweigh the potential loss to Aleath.

2) Long term is likely to be extremely long term. The Thardic Republic has never constructed a new all weather road to anywhere. There is no record the Republic has even upgraded a dirt road to a paved one or openned a new dirt track to anywhere. The Republic, like Kanday and Rethem, is basically living on the infrastructure created by the Corani Empire. So, Armal is likely to remain a trading post/ save haven and water stop/ Peonian mission to the Goyzida for a very long time. The Empire was a common market for the west and its break-up has left everyone poorer as trade has become more difficult. So resources for infrastructure have become more scarce. Tharda hasn't even managed to repair the flood damage at Shiran.

3) Ramala Province is the area to which both the Nordaka and Elernin factions in the Thardic Senate look for expansion. This will be known to the house of Kand. And it should be clear which factions plans for the southeast of Tharda are least inimical to Kanday's interests. Making nice with Nordaka means that Elernin's more agressive plans continue to have active opposition from the Nordaka party in the Senate. And we know that Elernin predisposed to the destruction of: the Goyzida, Kanday, the house of Kand, Ibonost, and the Nordaka's counter balance to his ambitions in the Senate, not necessarily in that order.

4) Saying "yes" to Nordaka costs nothing. If the good offices of Kanday cause the Goyzida to tolerate, or even welcome the presence of a permanent mission/trading post on the east coast the costs will still be borne by Nordaka though the developement of the area will potentially benefit Kanday sooner.

So, the question is, is Andisan bright enough to see this? IMC he is.

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There is a chair and an NPC for visitors on Saturdays. We play most weeks. PM me. "You will always be my friend. You know too much."